Posted by: Administrator | 8 January, 2008

Musharraf Interview with Jawabdeh GEO

President General Pervez Musharraf’s interview with Jawabdeh at GEO TV

Host: How are you Mr. General?

President: I am fine.

Host: Why this book has been written by Pervez Musharraf and not by General Pervez Musharraf?

President: General is not written with my name but no doubt I am a General.

Host: But it is not written by your name?

President: Yes, it is not written in book but every one knows me as a President and as a General.

Host: The copy rights of this book are held by President Pervez Musharraf?

President: Yes

Host: Sir, Will you hold these rights till the time you remain President or you will

remain President for life long and will hold these rights?

President: You can take implications as you like but right now I am President of


Host: I wont question that you have violated some Official Secret Code because

you have mentioned that you keep on consulting Attorney General but Sir one of

the Generals, General Mahmood wrote a book and sought your permission which

you did not granted. So Sir if you are writing book then will you give same right to


President: Someone has given wrong information. The book needed some

amendments and it was very pertinent one. He has written on 1965 war, it is a

good book and I think it has been launched.

Host: I’ve heard that all copies were bought by Army?

President: That is required for Army Book Club; it is about the military history of

1965 war. It can be published openly. Every Army Officer should have it,

because it contains detailed maps and tactical and strategical details. It is a book

of military study.

Host: Sir you once said that whoever says that I should have written book after

retirement then they want me to write it after death?

President: Oh I said that in light mood. If I had written it after leaving limelight

then that book will not sold out. And the objective of this book is not projection of

my own self, it is meant for the projection of Pakistan. People will come to know

about Pakistan’s views when this book will be sold and it will be sold when I am

in limelight and in center stage. Whoever is saying to write it after retirement, he

seems to not have idea about the logic behind writing this book.

Host: After reading this book it seems that you are not in the line of fire but you

have put many people in the line of fire and they include General Abdul Waheed,

General Jhangir Karamat, Ali Quli, Nawaz Sharif and many other people.

President: No, its nothing like that. I’ve written facts and my own autobiography.

If I had not written facts, the book would not have been interesting. All this is

truth; I can not say anything about these objections. If anyone comes in line of

fire then its bad luck, this is the truth.

Host: Sir, will you allow other people to write such books so that they can also

tell about the facts which they have?

President: People are writing such books. I do not have any objections.

Host: You have not mentioned in this book that your nick name was Puloo?

President: Oh yes, but who told you?

Host: You have also not mentioned that you used to teach your brother


President: Yes, it was so. You should better be in ISI.

Host: If ISI had been that much effective then why we could not get report at the

time when Indians had come forward on Siachen Glacier?

President: That is not the job of ISI. Indian forces moved in Siachen in 1984.

There had been no forces there from either side. People used to go there just for

exploratory missions or trekking. We were given information that some

movement is there so we sent a SSG mission. We knew that they were coming.

It can not be called intelligence failure.

Host: Sir, you have written that you got disappointed when Ali Quli Khan was

appointed as CGS because you were expecting it for your own self?

President: Yes, I had disappointment but then I overcome it.

Host: Sir, do other people in Army also dream of becoming COAS?

President: Everybody who joins Army and works hard dream of going to top

level. But it does not mean that fights should be started to carry out this ambition.

The one who becomes COAS is not responsible for its appointment because

someone else appoints him. So others should not have dejection. There will be a

bit disappointment in start because you are in the run but a person should

become normal after that.

Host: Sir, since the regime of General Zia, politicians have appointed COAS of

their own choice neglecting chain of command. Do you think that they did the

right thing?

President: No, it has never happened in Army that senior most has been made

COAS. This appointment is always from mix. It is selected from first three or four

persons. There should be some procedure or merit orientation. Secondly you

said that President or Prime minister has to appoint. I am not in the favour of

appointment by Prime Minister but it should be the President. It should not be

politicized; politics should be out of it. It should be the professional merit that

should work.

Host: Mr. President you are saying that professional merit should work, it should

be among three or four seniors and President should make this appointment.

Can we make this suggestion more democratic and improved if the list of

suggested names goes to some committee of Senate and hearings conducted

and a decision acceptable to all is made?

President: Well, if better arrangements can be made then yes indeed, why not.

Host: What do you think? You are running state affairs since last seven years. If

this responsibility is given to standing committee of senate then can it be fruitful?

President: I think conduction of interviews and listening to them will not be

proper thing to do. It is a too senior a post to be interviewed.

Host: But it is a practice in America. They go for hearing.

President: I think if some committee is made and it takes this decision then it is

better as long as it is depoliticized.

Host: Will you think about this option?

President: Yes, I can. But somebody has to be in-charge to take a decision. It

should not be happen that they keep on arguing and are unable to take decision.

It is a common practice in Pakistan that if some agreement can not be reached

upon then things keeps on continuing for long. There has to be final say. Some

voting procedure or any thing like.

Host: Mr. President is it true that you backed out of your commitment to doff off

the uniform which caused MMA never supported you on the day of voting,

secondly National Security Council did not come up to your expectations?

President: Yes it is correct; they were backing out of every thing and just notice

their language during that period. They were giving threatening statements.

Instead of bringing some political harmony they think that political harmony and

democracy is dependent on this thing only. And democratic traditions will

improve. They got involved in threat game and kept on violating things. Over and

above this is not something personal like me vs MMA. There was such a

regional, domestic and international situation which required a unity of command.

I thought that it is very important to remain in uniform for this unity of command.

Host: Will you continue with it?

President: Well, I have been elected till 2007 constitutionally and democratically

by 2/3 majority. I can be President and COAS in 2007. We will take further

decision when time will come but I’ll definitely not violate constitution.

Host: Why did you make commitment?

President: I had such intentions at that time and was futuristic for coming one or

two years. I do realize that ultimately one has to resolve this issue. I have revived

democratic traditions by bringing real democracy. Otherwise we only had label of

democracy and there was no essence of democracy here.

Host: Do you think a President in uniform is a better president?

President: No, It is not a better option. President should not be in uniform. This

decision was taken by a democratic process. 2/3 majority approved this decision

so it is not undemocratic but I think to fulfill all requirements of democracy, a

uniformed President should not be there.

Host: When you are criticized, you are criticized from two points of views, as

COAS and as President. So it becomes difficult to differentiate between your

both positions. When you address public meetings and ask people to vote for

your supporters’ then opposition will ask people to vote against you and they will

have to think about it. You have different position as President and COAS. I may

criticize you as President but may not do so as COAS. What are the options for


President: The people who are criticizing me do not think anything before doing

so. It is not a problem for them. That is not the case. As far I am concerned I

always speak in public meetings of success of moderate forces. I say that

fundamentalist, radical and extremist should not win.

Host: Which are the moderate forces in Pakistan?

President: Oh, I won’t go in details

Host: Why not sir, you are my president and I would like to learn from you.

President: No, I would not comment on it.

Host: Sir, please let me know the qualification of the people for whom you are

asking to vote for? Are they according to your moderate thinking?

President: I give my opinion in two ways, firstly selecting moderate forces and

secondly rejecting radical forces. I say that if you think that there had been some

improvement in condition of Pakistan is last seven years then give vote to those

who will vote for me. Which ever forces they are. It is vague.

Host: Sir you are COAS. You should be neutral. Whoever will be elected can

vote for you. You are talking about a particular party. Is it suitable for COAS to

ask people to vote for a particular party?

President: No, I do not talk about any specific party. I just give statement that if

you people want sustenance and continuation in my policies; you will have to

vote for people who will elect me. I think it is very important to say all this in

current situation of Pakistan that liberal and progressive forces may win. 2007

elections are very important and it is the future of Pakistan.

Host: Can you give me the surety as COAS and President of Pakistan that

Election 2007 will be free and fair?

President: Yes, they will be.

Host: Sir, do the requirements of free and fair elections not include the

establishment of a strong Election Commission?

President: Yes, it does.

Host: Does this Election Commission not has the authority of appointing its own

staff by itself and should have judicial and financial authorities?

President: Yes, I agree with it.

Host: Sir, The current Election Commission is being criticized by many

opposition parties so should not President ask for suggestions from political

parties about it and ask them that which panels they want to bring in? So that

such an election commission is established whose results are acceptable fro all

people in Pakistan. Acceptance of results is very important.

President: Firstly, it is guaranteed that if main opposition party will loose they will

use unfair tactics. They will say that it was unfair. Whoever will loose, will say

elections unfair. When we were appointing Chief Election Commission, we asked

opposition parties to send their suggestions but nobody bothered. I know the


Host: What is the reason?

President: They instructed to not suggest any name because if it did not worked

then we will have to bear consequences. So now they can criticize fully.

Host: Do you want to give judicial and financial power to Election Commission so

that it can act as independent institution without any fear of being kicked out?

President: No, I have never done any thing like this. I have used uniform for

institutional strengthening and not for dictatorial regime.

Host: Sir, if any boy makes time bomb in college or make cocktails then should

FBI be informed?

President: Yes, it should be informed. Oh, I did it; you are coming to that event.

That was not a bomb, it was cracker.

Host: The word has been used sir.

President: Hmm, it is written like it. But it can be called cracker.

Host: Sir, you wrote that in F C College I learnt how to make time bomb? Not

only bomb but time bomb.

President: Well, that is exaggeration I would say. It was a minor issue.

Host: Sir, you refused to obey your CO and took leave at your own will. And

when you came back you said that it was leave I granted by myself. What was

that behavior?

President: I was young then. I had to go from Changa Manga to Karachi and I

was not allowed prefixing or suffixing of Sunday so I thought to take leave by my


Host: You were a young Lieutenant at that time.

President: Yes, but I was punished and was rightly punished.

Host: No sir, you were spared. If you had been rightly punished then you would

not have been giving this interview. Your Court Marshall had been initiated, your

statement had been recorded but you were spared due to 1965 war.

Host: I motivated my brigade to the highest pitch; my troops were itching for a

chance to avenge what happened in 1971 in East Pakistan. This is what you

wrote. Sir do you still have the same motivation?

President: Well I have been a motivated solider. It is my belief that if you have to

add in the abilities of a spy then it can be done only by motivation. His output

becomes 150%. I always had belief in motivation.

Host: Do you still have the same feelings?

President: Well, if there is war, although it should not be, I am not for the war; I

am not a war monger. But if there is war then indeed I’ll have the same

motivation for fight. But however, having said that at this moment it is not age of

war. We should try to solve our disputes politically and diplomatically.

Host: Sir, do you think that Pakistan’s role in Black Hog Down has been


President: Yes. I was DG MO at that time. I knew that what operations were

carried out there. One company of our regiment 7FF extricated Americans. Only

APCs were shown.

Host: Has it become a regular attitude of American to forget after they have been

helped out?

President: Well, yes, in our case we were let down in 1989.

Host: Do you believe that it will not happen in future?

President: Yes, I believe. But no body is friend of yours. Everyone has its own

interests. Every country has its national interests and it pursues it. When it has

relations with other country, it makes diplomatic moves keeping in view its own

interest. This should be our policy too. The strategic realities which are in our

region, Gulf, Middle East, Central Asian Republics, Afghanistan and in India.

Kashmir is called nuclear flash point .The focus of world which has been Euro

Centered has been shifted here. So we will remain important in near future.

Host: Sir, their interest will not lessen but we should also keep our interest in

view. You are talking of war on terrorism and they should realize this thing that

you will be facing some consequences of it. Only their interests should not be

considered. The whole of Afghan war was fought with the help of you and we

defeated USA’s opponent. And lot of credit for US is being single super power of

the world, goes to Pakistan.

President: Every country pursues its own national interests. We should have

done strategical analysis in 1980s, may be people at that time had done that, I

was not the part of decision making machinery at that time. They should have

analyzed that if we win what would happen next and how to make sure to get

maximum advantages. We trained Taliban and sent them to Afghanistan. What

will be done with them? How peace will prevail after victory. I do not know how

they though it, we were left alone. But this is not the case.

Host: Sir, Shall we take advantage of it or not as some other countries have

been benefited by contributing in war on terrorism? Now people question this

thing that why we were unable to do it?

President: This is not a business.

Host: But as you said that every country guards its own interests so we also

want to have financial benefit and investment here?

President: No doubt we have taken great advantage of it. Basically the reprofiling

of debt by Paris Club is the biggest achievement of ours. The Foreign

Currency Account has become surplus in 2004 as a result of re-scheduling of

debt by Paris Club. We also got a package of $ 3 billion and large investment. IN

addition to this we have got such a stature in world’s forum that we have a say.

Host: But sir you are being criticized as well? During your recent visit to America

you have been criticized heavily? ISI is being blamed for lot of things. Karzai is

saying that you are training militants; Manmohan Sigh is alleging that he has

proofs of Bombay Blasts.

President: We should no be worried due to this criticism, there is turmoil in the

world and somehow we get aspersion due to it. Whether it happens in London or

Spain or Istanbul, there always comes some linkage with Pakistan or Pakistani

so people will criticize. I trace history, so I will say that somehow Pakistan’s

involvement comes to the scene and thus it is criticized. We should stand up

against it and I think we have changed the opinion. People have accepted that

policy which we are following in North Waziristan and South Waziristan is correct

and same should be followed in Afghanistan.

Host: It has been said that you have lost, whatever you achieved in North

Waziristan after 2001, by entering into treaty.

President: No, this is not correct. Firstly we should see whether we did a right

thing or wrong one from Pakistan’s point of view. Then we should bother about

Afghanistan and other world. Every leader with whom I have discussed this treaty

has asked it a correct decision.

Host: Wasn’t it better to make this treaty earlier so that so many of our soldiers

would not have lost their lives?

President: No, it is not like that. We have two defects, we see Pakistan from

other people’s point of view. Come to the Pakistan’s environment and then look

at these decisions. We are saying that why this treaty was not possible in 2003,

and then consider the environment of 2003. Army created an environment for this


Host: You had disappointment on not being selected as CGS and showed

distrust on your command? Was it a right thing to do for a professional soldier?

President: No, I have just expressed my feelings, it was not like that I disobeyed

their orders or did not perform my duties. I was performing my duties 100%.

Those were just my inner feelings.

Host: You have mentioned in your book that Ali Quli was appointed as CGS

because he was class fellow of Farooq Ahmed Laghari. You were third senior

most Lieutenant General and all this happened due to General Waheed. Were all

these people angry with you?

President: No, these are just facts. I have met Laghari, he a nice man, I respect

him and he is a good friend of mine now. He has corrected me that he was not

class fellow of Farooq Laghari rather he was junior to him. SO it was my mistake,

I was told so. So these are facts. I have been DG MO and worked under General

Waheed. What ever I have written is just an expression of feelings, it is not

related with my professionalism.

Host: Sir, what manipulation did Waheed Kakar?

President: He gave extension of three or four months to two Lieutenant

Generals. Thus disturbing the seniority chain.

Host: You have written in detail about Ali Quli Khan and he has responded to it.

He says that it is wrong that you were among those five cadets who were chosen

to send to Sand Hurst, they included Shabir Shairf, Afzal, Khalid Nawaz, Zahoor

Afridi and Ali Quli.

President: I think he is suffering from bad memory, he needs to check records.

You can talk to out other course mates. There were four cadets including me, Ali

Quli, Shabir Sharif and fourth I think was Afzal.

Host: You have mentioned Ali Quli as mediocre officer and he has said that

there is not a single year in which General Musharraf showed better performance

than me.

President: I do not want to indulge in this controversy. I was a teacher of him. I

was instructor in war course so I knew about his caliber.

Host: You said that Ali Quli wanted to impose Marshal Law. Were you present

there when Ali Quli said so?

President: Yes, I was present there and what ever happened next day was more

serious and I was told that. His point of view was that President and PM both

should resign. I want to clarify that he did not asked to impose Marshal Law. But

he was in favor of Marshal Law and he asked to over throw President and PM.

Host: When this entire tussle was continued, it was you who was ready to

sacrifice for President and PM. Is it correct? It was you personal opinion that PM

should be spared and President and CJ should go. Is it so? What was the


President: It was my honest opinion. There was no reason to use 58-2(b)

Host: Is it correct that it has been planned to remove Army Chief before

appointing you as Joint Chief of Army?

President: I guess it had been, I can not be sure.

Host: What was the reason? You were close to PM and were accommodating

him. You provided him the army for WAPDA and established courts for him then

what was the reason? You did not answer it in your book, who will answer it?

President: I can not answer it exactly that what the reason can be. Some people

say that they needed a supportive Chief for next election.

Host: But you were supportive.

President: I had been but they might have better choices in the form of Zia-ud-

Din. I would have retired till that time and if they had appointed some one else he

would have existed till the time of election.

Host: I am asking this question because I was unable to find answer to these

questions in your book.

President: I‘ve mentioned the differences

Host: What were those differences?

President: He might have think that Chief should be totally under the thumb, the

way he removed General Karamat, as he talked of NSC. As I have told about

retirement of two Major Generals.

Host: Who were those two Major Generals?

President: One was Anis Bajwa and other was Shujat, our ambassador in


Host: Why? What were they doing?

President: He said that they had treason and conspired against PM. I said that

there should be proper inquiry; you can not send a Major General home like this.

Host: What type of conspiracy two Major Generals can do against a PM?

President: They were persuading Chief to remove PM. That is what he told me.

Host: Did you have to tell him again and again that I am not General Jhangir


President: No, I did not send any messages but I just said it openly once or

twice and I was expecting that he will get it. That was a strange period, we were

listening many things from media or other sources, as it is an attitude of ours to

leak out things to media.

Host: Sir, when you say that I am not General Karamat, do you mean that he

was not a strong man?

President: Well you can take any inference.

Host: I wanted to know your point of view.

President: I won’t give my opinion. He had been my CGS and Chief.

Host: Why Nawaz Sharif called his Defence Secretary a coward man?

President: He might tell some apprehensions about signing the documents

regarding my retirement.

Host: Why have you called the whole process a counter one? The authority

which PM used was an administrative one then why you called it a counter one?

Are you saying that two groups were created in Army?

President: No, not at all. What ever he did was coup. I was a legal Army Chief

even when I landed because those orders were not signed. I was legal Army

Chief, I remained that way, I was never removed. That was not the matter of

some petty post; it was about the post of COAS. Proper orders are passed and

then they are signed and he is removed.

Host: What would have been the situation if orders would have passed?

President: I do not know, but if you are talking about legal position then it was

the legal position or in any case it was most unbecoming COAS was asked to not

land in Pakistan. This is absolutely ridiculous.

Host: Is it correct that Nawaz Sharif decided to not let you land when TV Stations

were taken over and news was aired?

President: Absolutely wrong. That was just coincidence of timings, he had

removed me and action was started after it. The incidence of taking over of

stations had happened when I landed on airport. Other actions were taken later.

Host: Sir it is said that you remained in air to control the counter coup because

all f your companions knew that PM will do any such thing and they were ready

to counter it?

President: No I even did not know that PM has retired me.

Host: Is it true that the person who did counter coup Shahid Masood and Ahmed

Aziz were relatives of yours? And all important appointments were done by you?

President: No it is wrong, there were no such preparations. All postings are

done by Army Chief so I had made that appointments. Shahid Aziz was an able

officer and he was DG MO.

Host: Is it true that Shahid Aziz’s orders were considered equivalent to COAS’s


President: DG MO issues orders on the behalf of CGS and COAS and

operational orders are always issued by DG MO.

Host: Sir, you have mentioned in your book that there could be bloodshed in this

counter coup. I want to ask that it had been then who would have been

responsible for it and to which extent it could have been serious?

President: Yes, the situation was really grave. Army is a disciplined institution

and it shows loyalty to its Army Chief. I was not a Desk man. I had a following

and authority, I think people like me in Army. So use divisions in Army, appoint

new COAS or Corps Commander on Ad-hoc basis without proper procedure.

Army Chief is unaware and new COAS and 10 Corps Commander are being

appointed from PM House, all this created confusion in lower ranks, due to this

there was a possibility of bloodshed.

Host: Mr. President if it had happened then what would have been the situation?

President: Then the situation would have been very grave.

Host: You had written that many people used to ask you to remove PM, who are

these people who want to make army indulge in politics?

President: I do not want to tell name.

Host: Do you want to save them?

President: Actually people say such things in confidentiality and I do not want to

expose them. Some people just used to ask me that what are you doing? And

many said openly and blatantly to take over? They asked me that will you take

some step when Pakistan will exist no more.

Host: Do they still come to you?

President: No, its not the situation now. Now I am responsible for Pakistan and

there are more chances fro Pakistan to progress.

Host: Which thing pressurized you to have contract with Nawaz Sharif?

President: There was no pressure, it was just respect.

Host: Did Nawaz Sharif really rebel?

President: Yes, he did.

Host: Was it not necessary to implement the Court’s decision?

President: Court’s orders are there.

Host: They were not your personal enemy, whatever they did was against state’s

authority. Then why did you spare them?

President: I told that respect of a foreign dignitary was important.

Host: Did you take this step that creates political easiness for your own self?

President: No, its not the case, one was the respect of foreign dignitary and

other thing is that as the trial was going on and it could have taken one more

year so we wanted to end the turmoil and pay attention to other issues.

Host: Do you become afraid of turmoil?

President: No, I am not fearful of anything.

Host: Sir, you will have to face turmoil in politics when you will leave COAS


President: Yes, I’ll have to.

Host: Will I be able to see the same Musharraf which is portrayed in book?

President: Yes, absolutely. I am not fearful of any turmoil. Many things which we

have been doing in Baluchistan, Hadood Ordinance and Kalabagh Dam are proof

of it.

Host: Is it correct to punish family member of Nawaz Sharif like Shahbaz Sharif?

President: No, I did not give any punishment, it is their own insistence, they

were pressurizing.

Host: Is it correct that Shahbaz Sharif said that I do not want to sign the


President: Yes, I have written it. It is correct. I came to know that he has said

that he does not want to go then I said if they are going, then everyone should


Host: You have mentioned that you forbade Nawaz Sharif from ceasefire but

Zinni has written that on 24th or 25th of 1999, dialogue was continued and it was

you who asked for ceasefire.

President: No it is wrong. It was not about ceasefire but was about withdrawal. I

did not have any such talks with General Zinni, in July a DCC meeting was held, I

personally briefed for an hour and told facts about Kargil sector, mentioned all

possibilities of war, limited war, air war, discussed our responses and abilities of

our own forces and I never said that we should withdraw.

Host: You have not written anything about General Zinni.

President: Yes, because he was not important

Host: What had happened if we had not entered in peace treaty in Kargil?

President: One can conjecture a lot.

Host: What advantages could have been achieved?

President: Pakistan achieved some objectives there; Mujahideen went there and

then Pakistan Army.

Host: But the war had to be stopped on any level.

President: From my point of view some objectives had to be achieved.

Host: Did you achieve any objectives?

President: Yes, we did. Kashmir got highlighted.

Host: You, General Zinni and Nawaz Sharif have a stand on Kargil, a review

report has been published in India, and then why do not you constitute any

committee to present your stand?

President: No, there are lots of sensitivities. It is not that simple.

Host: But you have accepted that Mujahideen were forwarding, then what

sensitivity has left.

President: One sensitivity is about Mujahideen and other thing is that they

created differences, Nawaz Sharif is still saying that it was Army which asked to

withdraw fro its own saving, its wrong, I never said, I have mentioned in my book

that in DCC Committee Raja Zafar-ul-Haq was the biggest opponent of

withdrawal, Did they withdrew form Siachen? No, then why should we. You can

ask Chaudhry Shujaat, he was also there.

Host: Mr. President what is objectionable in making a committee about it?

President: Let the bygones be bygones. There are still sensitivities in this issue.

Differences were created.

Host: Mr. President you came with seven point agenda but it has not been fruitful

yet. You said that Pakistani society is not good, people vote fro bad people,

smugglers, drug dealers and corrupt win election and an ideal solution is not


President: You said that my agenda has not been fruitful, it is wrong to say so.

The results are not 100% but if you look at these points one by one, successful

results of them vary by degree.

Host: By which percent you have been successful in National reconstruction?

President: It is a vast issue and difficult to describe in percentage terms but we

have succeeded a lot.

Host: Sir, you have been ruling for seven years while the usual tenure is five

years. So you should have achieved these goals.

President: No, 100% can not be achieved even in 20 years.

Host: Is Federation more strong today?

President: No Federation is not that much strong today, we had lesser success

in this area. But we are addressing its issues, this is long term task. Strength of

Federation required balanced development and we allocated more to backward

provinces, addressed more to their problems. Punjab has been given lesser

share in PSDP as compared to Sindh and Baluchistan. We adopted a balanced


Host: Sir, isn’t this balanced attitude their right?

President: It is their right. I have decreased the Center’s share in National

Finance Award. We have taken lot of steps. You can see the dichotomy in

Baluchistan, they have been blackmailing Center in past.

Host: They kept on blackmailing because you kept on getting blackmailed.

President: Correct.

Host: Why did not you take action even when you knew in 2000 that there are

Farari Camps?

President: The situation was different at that time. We were involved in other

things; we were busy in economic revival. There were not lot of Farari camps in

2001, they have developed more now after the ALQ and Taliban issues.

Centrifugal forces started emerging after that. Sui was not under attack in 2000.

Host: Were there no Farari Camps?

President: No. and they had not taken over coal mines.

Host: Why Center was blackmailed when it used to provide resources?

President: It was due to weakness. These people are against democracy and

development. They do not let developmental work carry on there. The road from

Sibbi to Kohlu was started in 1970 and it remained incomplete which we have

started now.

Host: I think that showing glasses and watch of Bugti was an unsuitable act.

Message was not conveyed to common man.

President: I do not pass order fro every thing. I do not do micro management; no

President and PM go in such mini details. But that was a proof that man is dead.

There was lot of rumors about his death so they were just shown as a proof. I

won’t call it a wrong thing.

Host: But it created a doubt as both things were not destroyed one and was in

original condition.

President: This is wrong to say. If a plane crashes and falls from 30000 feet,

many things remain safe.

Host: What about law and order situation?

President: It has become worse because we are facing lot of issues right now

including ALQ, Taliban, Baluchistan and many others. There are two ways of

tackling things. One, to do something and face the problems. Other is to sweep

all problems under the carpet and get short term advantages. But it is bad for

Pakistan in long term. I do not believe in short term things. Federation gets

weakened and individuals get strong.

Host: Individuals should not get strong and it can be done by strict accountability

process. When you came in power you promised to implement such a system of

accountability which will revive new life in Pakistan. What about that system?

President: Yes, we have succeeded a lot in this area and much is left to do.

Many people have been arrested and looted money was given back to people.

But what was the result? There was a flight of capital and people started

blackmailing state. We had to revive economy, nobody was making investment,

industrialists were fleeing from the country, Banks stopped providing loans,

bureaucrats stopped taking decisions, then we constituted committees that if any

industrialist is caught then decision should be taken after considering well the

nature of corruption. Every one had done some type of corruption.

Host: Does this situation exist even now?

President: Yes, but NAB has done its duty and Multi-billion dollar crimes have


Host: Why don’t you address Graduate Assembly?

President: I think assembly should pass a bill that when President Addresses

there should not be disturbance. I have been seeing this situation in past years.

President has a position, whether you like him or not. He is President of

Pakistan. Why should I speak there when nobody is ready to listen to me? If my

address will have value then I’ll address but why to perform a useless ritual and

make bad impression of Pakistan.

Host: Why could, the party you support, was unable to get Woman Protection Bill


President: The bill is being debated yet to develop maximum consensus. There

are two extremist groups i-e liberal extremists and religious extremist. One group

is saying that repeal it completely and other is saying that if the issue is touched,

they will be on roads for protests. There are many issues associated with it. It

include the issue of wine, if it is repealed then I’ll become notorious for allowing


Host: You opposed Bhutto because he imposed a ban on wine?

President: A person should take balanced judgment. There are two issues in

Hadood Ordinance i-e Zina and rape which are exploiting women.

Host: Why you took its draft to America?

President: It is a baseless thing.

Host: Ch Shujaat gave this statement.

President: I do not think that he would have any such thing.

Host: Sir, you want enlightened moderation and for that you will have to support

those people who support this idea and not those people who have reservations

about it.

President: Yes, you are right. But nothing is that much black and white. You are

talking from religious point of view but this issue has a political dimension and we

have to consider that too. There are law & order dimension, political dimension

and religious dimension. Consensus is developed by keeping in view all three

dimensions. No give up has been done, bill will be presented again.

Host: You dropped the idea of religion option in passport, FIR report for

blasphemy. So liberal forces think that you are supporting religious elements.

President: No, it is not so. But when we now that there will be problem in some

religious issue then we do the way that it gets solved and problem does not arise.

We have not ended religion option from passport; it is now on page 2.

Host: Did you ask to remove Benazir picture before addressing Oxford Union?

President: No, it is absolutely wrong. I have never said that, if anyone has said

then he would have done so in his own capacity.

Host: Why you and Benazir have not been able to finalize the agreement?

President: There is no such agreement. There would be free, fair and

transparent election in 2007.

Host: What will you achieve by keeping Nawaz Sharif and PPP out of election


President: One has gone on 10 years contract by his own will, if he comes back,

there will be political turmoil. Other has gone by her own will too; there are court

cases against her. If she comes back, she will have to face them.

Host: I think Mr. President; we should not adopt the policy of forgiveness to

move forward.

President: Election 2007 is the key. Parliamentary process should be

completed; new assemblies should be elected first. If something is done now, it

would create turmoil in whole system.

Host: Would you allow Benazir and Nawaz Sharif to contest the elections?

President: They are not allowed according to legal procedures.

Host: And what if court gives verdict in their favour?

President: Courts can not do so in their absentia.

Host: You will not allow them to come back?

President: Benazir has gone by herself, I did not send her. While Nawaz Sharif

has got life sentence from court and has gone on contract for ten years. I have

shown very leniency with him by allowing him to go to London.


Host: You can show this leniency on large scale?

President: Election 2007 should not be disturbed. This is my bottom line.

Host: But if you will not allow them to take part in election, they will protest.

President: How can individuals make difference to this process, they have


Host: Will you think about forgiveness after 2007?

President: It will be decide at that time. And political leaders will take decision

about political issue.

Host: You changed the 60 years old stand about Kashmir. But Manmohan Singh

is not ready for any advancement; do not you feel frustrated on it?

President: The say that border can not be re-drawn and we say that LoC can not

be accepted as permanent border. The proposal I wrote is via media. First give

them self governance and there should be joint management on both sides of

border, make LoC irrelevant. So neither border will be re-drawn nor will LoC be


Host: Ali Geelani said that Musharraf’s suggestions are unsuitable?

President: This is his personal point of view.

Host: Right of self determination is the only solution of Kashmir.

President: Then keep on fighting for another 100 years.

Host: What Armitage said to you was conveyed to you by General Mehmood. He

was trustworthy person of yours. Can he make such a big mistake?

President: Why to get in semantics? Armitage is a nice man and Mehmood can

also not be wrong. So leave it.

Host: Some people say that you gave this statement to increase the sale of your


President: No, it is wrong. Whatever I said was what I heard.

Host: Was not it your right to protest to Bush on listening this threat?

President: There was nothing official in it and unofficial things should be ignored.


Host: Sir, you said that we got money and Sher Afgan said that this money went

to treasury and we have complete accounts of it. Why this contradiction?

President: This money went to agencies.

Host: You said that Pakistan is not a banana republic. Do you mean by banana

republic a state whose government is overthrown when the head is out of


President: Yes, it is such a state in which someone from lower ranks over

throws the government, who’s Government does not have any writ.

Host: Can we take a state banana republic where laws can not be implemented?

In Pakistan we have failed to implement laws in almost every area, so can we be

called a failed state?

President: No, let not take it to that extreme. We are in habit of running down

our own selves. There are many countries which are worse than us. These are

the problems of developing world. We are facing problems and we are moving


Host: In failed state index, we were at ninth number?

President: Oh, I take these indices with a pinch of salt. I do not think that they

are aware of our environment. I do not go for this figure.

Host: Rice said that USA has not imagined Pakistan without Musharraf; you said that I am not an easy target. But you are a human being, you can die in any

accident then what will be the situation in Pakistan? Will some other military man take over? What would be the chain of command?

President: No, and if USA has that much trust on me it’s nice of them. No one is permanent, only Pakistan is permanent. Chain of command is very much clear.

Whenever I go abroad, Chairman Senate becomes President. Political leaders, assemblies and senate are functional, they can elect new President. PM is there.

Host: What will be the Pakistan’s future?

President: If we are dependent on one individual then we should not. System should prevail and it is there, they just have to make sure that leadership comes


Host: How will you exit?


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