Posted by: Administrator | 19 August, 2006

President Interview to NDTV India

5 December 2006

Q: It’s after 5 years since Agra; the people of India get fascinated with you. Many like you and many are not sure about you. Some even don’t like you. Whatever this is they can’t ignore that. I think I wanted to know more about General Pervez Musharraf as a person. E.g. you talk about enlightened moderation. What exactly do you mean by that?

President: Enlightened moderation is a concept as a strategic connotation. Some times people degraded to a tactical or a minor tactical level I would say. It has a strategic concept. I thought of it, when I analysed when happened in Pakistan and what in our region and the world at large infect. Where the Muslims are really at the receiving end of that is every thing that is happening. Political deprivation, Militancy, bombings, killings of Muslims and the perpetrators as well as the sufferers of Muslims, so the strategy I thought was how can we improve the world, how can we do something for the Muslim world. We are being a part of course. And at the same time do something for Pakistan. That is where I thought the terrorism, extremism and the militancy is not the future.

Q: Are you a moderate Muslim? President: Yes I think so.

Q: Do you encourage the Enlightened Moderation across the Muslim world. ?

President: yes indeed I do. But the world has to understand that the other part that they have to deliver. Resolution of political disputes, now if the world thinks that we got all these militancy and we will come towards peace and socio economic development, no site is doable until you resolve political disputes. That happens to be the core of every thing. So therefore world has to play its role in the enlightened moderation part and then of course it has its tactical connotation as you have said, an enlightened society, so I would like to create an enlightened society within Pakistan.

Q: Does this make you many enemies?

President: yes it does and the enemies are those who I called obscurantist. Don’t understand Islam actually. They are the ones who bring the bad name to Islam. Islam is a great religion but unfortunately the world sees Islam to be a religion may be of, the general perception, the religion that encourages militancy, encourages extremism, where it supposed to be a tolerant, it suppose to be tolerant to all religion. So these people who are obscurantist who are against me and who even think that I am some kind of a non believer which is anything but a truth.

In Islam there is Haqooq-Ullah and Haqooq-Ulibad. Haqooq-Ullah is the God’s rights on you and Haqooq-Ullah is the peoples rights on you. God right is fine, every one should do that and one should pray and do every thing but what about the right of the people that is where you have to sacrifice. And that is where these obscurantists don’t talk of. Because they need to sacrifice so the bigger issue which contributes to the society to the nation may be to the family which is Haqooq-Ul Ibad, they are ignoring that and look at them unfortunately what they are talking of women protection bill I mean these are the issues of their obscurantism.

Q: Yes, Actually we do want to come on that. In the last five years the Indians believe that the sincerity and the believe that when you are talking but on the other hand people say you are always are sincere and depending upon the audience say that India is the biggest enemy, you always said that India is a friend in that moment you believing both and to the Jihadees you say that I am a bigger Jihadi than you and to the moderate you do so. So at that moment you are sincere but what is the real General Musharraf?

President: I am disagreeing with you. I am totally disagreeing with you. I don’t play to the gallery at all, I speak the truth and the whole truth and never do I lie. Now this perception is absolutely baseless that I am playing to the gallery. When I speak to the military yes indeed I will say that there is a threat to us. And we have to be prepared for any threat, external and internal. But I will never say what I am denying to say anything to Indian public. Not at all if you are going for peace I do tell them that we have to go for peace. We have to reject extremism and terrorism. We have to resolve our disputes. There is no duplicity at all what so ever. If you would give me an example I would like to comment.

Q: Yes I am giving you the example. There is a great admiration for the women’s protection bill what you are doing that and taking on, I mean the very tough or militant side of I would say the extremist political side of Pakistan and its people. So you are compassionate on that side. But on the other side of General Musharraf is what you did to Bugti. There is a feeling that how could you do that to Bugti. How the same man can be compassionate on the other side?

President: No, I mean the compassionate for women. How can you compare women with Bugti? No, I am a soldier over and above I am from the Special Services Group. I have been trained as a fighter so compassion for women is different for Bugti which isdifferent what he was doing something against the Nation. I love the nation than anyone else. I love Pakistan much more than anything else. We are in the way of anybody who is trying to harm Pakistan. Irrespective of who ever, if the women harming Pakistan I would and indeed I am on this issue of this Mukhtara Mai, who I supported and I still support and I am with her to whatever wrong was done to her, right from the day one I was the first person who moved in her favour. But then there were some vested interest, Pakistanis playing this up and bringing a bad name on this issue of rape of women, violence against women in New York. I went against them.

Q: But did you regret that having made that statement? President: Which statement.

Q: That she was just rapped to get a visa?

President: No. no I didn’t say that. This is total misperceptions. I never say that. It would be very silly of me to say that.

Q: Because sir you were quoted in the media having said that?

President: No that is not the issue so I was against the women at that time there, because I thought they are bringing a bad name to their own country abroad. You can talk of violence against women in Pakistan. You can talk of violence against women anywhere in the world. I know India, where I read India Today on the main page where the women do not trust the judges and law enforcement agencies, where twelve examples inside of women having been rapped and all that in a worse manner than a Mukhtaran Mai case. I remember that. So this is a universal issue that it is I am lying to India it happens here. We need to address this issue in its complexity the whole.

Q: That’s the true General Musharraf, standing up against all odds then here is the President: No it was not done politically. What’s the way in handing politically when there is man of maintaining an Army of 6000 people with latest weapons and challenging the writ of the government, attacking the civilian installations. What political understanding is there. Firstly there is no political understanding with a man who has an army, we will crush him, and there is no doubt as you are doing in India. So why anyone is challenging, secondly thatI killed him. What do mean by I killed him? He was operating against the Army, he went into the mountains, and it was actually the frontier core not the Army which is our second line force. It was the Frontier Core which was the one which surrounded them and some support from the Army, from the commandoes and we surrounded him and then an incidence took place, actually how there are five officers killed inside? That was obvious that were not to attack him, they wanted him to surrender and suddenly explosions took place and whole cave collapsed. This is how but I would I like to say that anyone who maintains a military and tries to challenge Pakistan, the Government of Pakistan and the Military of Pakistan, there is not doubt in my mind, there is not duplicity in my mind about this. We will crush him. We always said that and we will not allow that.

Q: Other side of General Musharraf you went to visited temple. What was the signal behind that?

President: This is unfortunate. I am a man who acts on impulses and acts on exactly what is happening around. I am very natural I o not put any act. I am not putting on act because I am going to temple to convey something to India and all that. These are all people who read between lines. What had happened? Let me tell you. I went to see the progress on Bagh Ibn Qasim, which is the Qutari parade in Clifton area, beautiful park which we are making. There was a function there so I could go there and see that. I walked and spend about 2 hours, when I was coming out. At the entrance of the park there is a temple and the stairs go down and there were about twenty who were there. I presumed that they were Hindus. I don’t know that there is a temple there, which goes downstairs there were 20 people I presumed they were Hindus I just walked up to them. I shook hand with all of them. I said what are you doing and who you etc. are and they were Hindus. And they said that this is our temple. I said ok. I said to them can I visit your temple. They said that yes we will be very honoured and I walked in. I went inside and I stood with them and there were many others. I stood with them about half an hour. I saw everything and I said do you want assistance. I said that do you want this temple to be done up. What do you want me to do. Can I do something for you? I don’t mind at all. Any Hindus are free here, we Hindus in our assemblies.

Q: Is it your way that you are bringing Jinnah’s vision in Pakistan. Which lost its way as you write in your book?

President: yes indeed. There is no doubt in my mind that this is an Islamic republic of Pakistan. But in accordance with Quaid-I-Azam vision, the minorities have equal rights here. They are Pakistanis as Muslims. Therefore I have done alot for the minorities. I have given them joint electorate, giving them fixed representation. Double advantage we have given them politically and I have no problem in interacting with Christians, Hindus. There are six in the military academy. So we have no problem. I have no problem what so ever.

Q: I heard you said some time that you have been sent here to do a job by Allah? President: Never said that. This is again misquoting. I have just been quoting in my book what has happened to me. And which is the reality. I have never said, I am a humble man. I am not that arrogant that God has sent me to the earth to deliver or some other. No at all. I am very humble down to earth man. I am a practical person and I have never said that kind of a thing. There are aspersions which are cast. I just speak the truth. Yes when I speak to an audience here to a common man that I have said because they are listening, and I told them that I am that much religious if not stronger in religion than those who are challenging my religious credentials. That is where I tell them that in the house of God Kahan-e-Kabah or in Madina, because saying that it is God who wills anyone who goes there and visit inside. So I have been saying that I visited there seven times and I have gone to Madina and doors are open for me, locks are open and I go inside to pray seven time I have gone inside. So I God wills that so therefore what is the issue, I am a greater Muslim than anyone of you. Taking this to be that God has sent me no sir I have never said that and I have no such illusions.

Q: Good things about this interview that absolutely frank and clarify everything. But you also tend to hint that because there have been so many assassination attempts. So many times you could have died if you have been appointed with the plan with Zia or all kind of instances in life, which could have been terrible but there they didn’t happen. Does this mean that you are all a superstitious person?

President: I am not at all a superstitious. I have never looked back to my life at all. But now I started writing this book then I started thinking what has happened, that is where I have started believing in some type of a destiny. I don’t know what this has happened but not at all I have ever said or even now I am not superstious and not at all superstitious.

Q: As you have said that you have been visited seven times in the house of God and also the attempts on your life has been made seven times as well through some destiny?

President: I have escaped there is no denying that, these are a fact that is the fact of life. This has happened to me and now I don’t know how you would call it. Whatever you want to call it, I called it a destiny that I escaped. I don’t know how else I call it.

President: Yes indeed, I would like him to come tomorrow. What is the use of visit if its not substantive. There are issues involved. Let’s make an important visit.

Q: Would you like him to come with big break through? President: Yes with some breakthrough if not big breakthrough.

Q: If he comes here. What is your plan? Would you take him to his home town Peshawar?

President: I will take him wherever he wants to go. Its open he is the guest. I am his host. I would like to go any where he wants to go.

Q: Would you like him to take to his own village?

President: I would love to take him there. The place is near Chakwal not in NWFP.

Q: One thing that slightly rankles in your book, you have got on so well with Dr. Manmohan Singh to said very nice thing about him than that the initial sign of sincerity and flexibility in Manmohan Singh’s seems to be vigering away. I think the Indian establishment diplomats, intelligence agencies perhaps even the military have got better of him. I feel that if a leader is get away from hackening ideas and frozen positions, we have to be bold and the time of negotiations is that not a sort of thing to say about any leader?

President: Anyone can say anything about anything. These are my feeling and let my book as truthful and I must express my feelings. When I say about intelligence, when I say about foreign office, establishment, it is equally applicable. Even somewhere I have written about Pakistan. There is a drag about establishment, our intelligence, throughout for 50 years Sir has done nothing than harming each other.

We must know that and it is a fact. No body says this but I said. Both side, this is the reality. And also foreign office for 50 years have been following a certain line against India and so you have been following against Pakistan. You will come with new idea they will shoot it down straight. They suffered it due to inertia. And you have to break that inertia and you have to break that inertia and move it forward.

And that you can do only when you impose a will on them When we are talking of Siachen, I don’t know whether you are going to ask or not. It is so simple that it can be done tomorrow, I think so. Even on this Sir creak, it is simple. We are on Siachen; we have to work out a zone of disengagement that is all. Therefore it involves moving the troops and placing them somewhere. And that zone is reasonably clear. On the other side Sir Creek, you say that the border is on the Western side and we say that is on Eastern side. This Sir Creak has changed the whole course, however we are maintaining. Ok fine, as of today you say Western I say Eastern. Let’s take the mediumistic course. You’re western and extended to the sea. And we are Eastern and goes into the sea. That is in the sea goes in a funnel shape. With the world’s entire oil, gas and natural resources are right inside there. If they are there, let it be the zone of disengagement, if there is exploration it will be jointly done or we say that no body will enter this zone. If we are that intolerant to each other. Otherwise use it for common purposes. Why can not this are to be done. It can be done tomorrow. Now if you go into the details

Q: After Agra you are little more bold and confident and you are surrounded by same establishment that you have today?

President: No I am the same. May be I have matured in my view. May be because the world has become more complicated since then we must understand the region and the world, things to be taken and seen in their whole perspective. Most or many of the things you have to see the worlds; perspective, then you come into the regional perspective then as far as I am concerned; I have to see the Islamic perspective and then domestic. So this is a complicated world but on these issues of India Pakistan, let me assure you that the establishment, the foreign office, the intelligence is totally and completely with me on whatever ideas I gave, there is no opposition to that.

Q: The first thing that convinces a leader is that the things are complex? President: Yes,

Q: Five years ago you didn’t think that the things were so complex?

President: No I have realized that the things are complex myself, and they also obviously, you think you thought of it. Whoever thought of it is not the issue. I understand it actually ok I will give them the credit. Anyone can take the credit. But as long as I know that they are complex.

Q: General Musharraf 2001 was not in complex world, and in 2006 General Musharraf is in a complex world?

President: You are talking of the world. You were not talking about of India and Pakistan. Let me assure you that on India and Pakistan, whether it is Kashmir, Siachen or Sir Creek the establishment here is totally on board for a solution and we know what the solution is. We are open.

Q: So, finally on this particular issue on Dr. Manmohan Singh, how would you rate him?

President: Again so you want me to repeat what I said in the book No I leave it to you now. Whether you want to change your mind or you want to say anything else President: I rate him high. I respect him. He is a good man, he is a sincere man, he wants peace so I rate him high

Q: And Sonia Gandhi?

President: Frankly, I don’t know her much. So as far as I think she is a nice person and I think whatever information I have she is again a person for peace, she is for peace so I admire her and I respect her.

Q: If she was sitting just opposite to you just now, what would have you said? President: I would say that she should put her weight behind resolution of the disputes. Because if she puts her weight behind and PM Manmohan Singh obviously gets strengthen, I think we can resolve disputes and bring permanent peace and it has so much advantage. We have analysed, look at the advantages, we have been talking of tourism, giving a boost to tourism, I think there will be million tourisms from Pakistan going there and million from your side coming here and look at the trade and economic activity.

Q: I want to come on to your solution of Kashmir, which as many people are saying is brilliant but they want more details. Before that I wanted to spend a little five minutes on the Election 2007 in Pakistan. Now its your duty to tell the Country that there is going to be such and such time not suddenly. So, when do you think it will be in 2007? The first half or second half of 2007?

President: Again suddenly, I don’t know who is talking of suddenly. Its very clear, why should anyone even be doubting when it will be? They complete their 5-year tenure in November. And the Constitution of Pakistan is very clear. After completion of this tenure within two or three months election has to be held. Now, this is the constitution of Pakistan. So, who the hell is doubting? Now unfortunately, it is the people who all themselves are democratic. They are trying to impose dissolution of these assemblies by me and they call themselves democratic. I am on the contrary saying that these assemblies must complete its tenure for the first time in the history of Pakistan. Who is more democratic? I do not know. I am a dictator, I am asking them to let the assemblies’ complete tenure and they are forcing me by all means trying to, no body forces me, they are trying to.

Q: So, you are saying that after November before January 2008?

President: Yes sure, it has to be.

Q: And who will win?

President: I have desire, I have a hope and I think that it should happen, I hope that moderate forces must win, I fretted calling it the mother of all elections, a term from Sadam Hussain i-e mother of all battles so this is the mother of all elections.

Q: he called it that because he lost that battle?

President: No not that way. We should win here its great issue because of the complexities of the region and Pakistan. Moderate forces, enlightened forces must win against these religious elements, I call them, they must go down to the level where they were before, and they were never of more than 3%-4% or 17-18% of all assemblies. They must be defeated.

Q: You will find these elections hit on extremists

President: unfortunately there is a little bit problem here, I am not fighting these elections, I am not being elected in these elections so it’s the political parties and its the moderate political parties who must win against them.

Q: Not in the sense that you would be fighting as a head of the political parties — to win the election by yourself.

President: no I will win the election only if the people who support me will win the elections which are the parties, political Parties now what did caught me here is that I have a certain popularity in masses but I am not asking them for a vote so what happens. Therefore my attempt is that I tell the people you vote for those, if you want me, you vote for those who are for me.

Q: Will you be standing from any constituency?

President: No, not at all. These are the people who do not understand realities we will have to first amend the constitution with 2/3 majority then only can be there a Presidential system and secondly people say things without analysis , now they keep talking that there should be a Presidential system , probably those some or my well wisher should say that , any how my well wishers would say that but they are just seeing me , I would like to see Pakistan as a country futuristically , when you introduce a system, its not for me , not for 15 years or 10 years . Any form of government, any system, and Democratic system is functional if the check and balances are there other wise any system can be fail. Now in a Presidential system, my view, in the Parliamentary system that we are running the President has the authority to dismiss the assemblies under article 58-2b. In a presidential system there is no check on the President. He can only be impeached. And that is a very very cumbersome and big issue. Here we have seen that Pakistan has failed because those running the government has failed, the PMs have been failing here, the nation had gone down from 1988 to 1999 as a failed state and default state because it were the PMs who were not delivering, now if this Presidential form was there who would have been the President, the same person, the same prime minister who has failed and there is no check on that. and five years merry hell he can play with the country so therefore sir whether it is a Presidential system or a parliamentary system the important thing is check, check and balance on every one, on every individual there should be a check so therefore you can have any system introduce check and balance and I think I have introduced check and balances in the system, therefore the system should be functioning.

Q: In these elections will Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif will stand? President: No

Q: why?

President: Firstly one of them is convicted, the other also is convicted, both are convicted, one of them has gone out for ten years under an agreement by himself, and other is out since

Q: What it is that they

President: no I’ll never do that. Because the plane was going to crash in 7 minutes, it had fuel of seven minutes, and pilot told me that if there will be a jerk it`ll crash. But here well, if he comes, he will be sent back to Saudi Arabia, he has ten years agreement, he will straight go back like his brother cam and went back there, so he will be sent back to Saudi Arabia and if she comes trials are there.

Q: so you are not scared of them? President: I am not scared of any body.

Q: at election times will you hold your seat?

President: well the constitution allows me to hold it till 2007, so I will hold it, till
November or December, there is argument on that, some says it November, some
says no its up to December, I do not know the legalities, now that is the constitutional opposition, if the elections are in November, I’ll be in uniform and that decision I have taken, take the uniform off before that but I have to decide this.

Q: you may not be with out uniform, you have to take decision? President: yes I have to take that decision because it’s a key decision.

Q: Why it is?

President: Well it’s not easy because there are some perceptions. First of all we have to – what Pakistan is facing, needs unity, unity of command and authority over important organs of state that include the military the political and the bureaucracy unity of command over them, unity of authority over them and I give that unity through maintaining the uniform, that is why.

President: well constitution does not allow me after 2007, so let’s see.

Q: there is a general concept that there are many heroes in India and there are not many heroes in Pakistan?

President: I wish you had come to the Presidency , the Presidents of Pakistan from Quaid-e-Azam to date are there before you enter the main hall, yes they are there whether we elect them or not

Q: yes that’s the key, whether you like them or not?

President: No no who told you this, please go and visit the museum, heritage museum in Islamabad which we have a world class museum, you must visit that and everyone is there, it carries every one, there is no such thing as knocking down the past.

Q: how would you rate all the leaders in Pakistan? After Jinnah who would you rate who was the best, who was the worst?

President: of course the Quaid-e-Azam was the best.

Q: No one after that?

President: I do not like to comment on that was the worst?

Q: who was the best after Quaid-e-Azam?

President Ayub Khan. He is because I have seen him from the point of view of delivery to the nation, I think it was during his time that this nation was brought in the green revolution of agriculture, there was industrial revolution there was massive development in Pakistan, all the dams were built in his time

Q: you do not say who is the worst? President: no I would not like to

Q: how would you rate the Indian prime minister over the time?

President: I would like to say that when you say that there is bankruptcy in leadership here, to extend it to your side also, I mean if —

Q: Who would you say the best pm?

President: Nehru, Of course, I was trying to compare three generation, Nehru, Indra Gandhi, and Rajeev Gandhi. Because you also have the same family going on, if you remove them from series who else. Obviously a leader has to do some thing for his nation so whether I like him or not for India yes Jawaharlal Nehru was the best

Q: One last thing on this issue. Are you ever worried what will happen to me after this part of power, it has to come in everybody’s life, because generally in Pakistan society of the following leaders is very tough then the previous leaders are you worried about that?

President: No I am not, what is the worse that can happen to me? I always believe in analysing the worst and can I face it? Yes, I can face it.

Q: What is the worse?

President: Why talk of the worst but I can face everything. I never think of it, sometime I do but not at all the way you are thinking that I am worried when I put my head on pillow I off I sleep, a very comfortable sleeper. Since I know that people like me, people are with me what can happen to me, I can face anything. Last Section on Kashmir & Solution

Q: Many have described it as brilliant that needs to be flashed out but I think if you just briefly tell the viewers what exactly is your four-point plan on solving the Kashmir problem?

President: Very briefly. Number one identify Kashmir geographically, because there are lot of its and bits in that, because on our side there are two regions and on your side there are three regions, so first identify what is Kashmir. Identify the area to which the solution will apply. Second, demilitarise; this is very very important. Now can we at the same time do understand that practicality has to be seen at, move all forces and take them somewhere else, but it can be done in phases and we could garrison the troops into the three locations. Garrison them in two or three places. Major garrison.

Q: I just want to clarify your solution comes in the face of two big constraints. One is India says “boundaries cannot be changed” and number two Pakistan says “LoC can never be the border” so your solution had to take both these factors into account. President: Yes, I am glad you put me right. I said this before that we have to cater for two absolute views of the two sides, and you said that boundaries cannot be redrawn by India and LoC cannot be accepted as permanent by Pakistan. Therefore the solution lies in making the LoC irrelevant and this is a term I’m borrowing from your leadership, this is the word they used and I keep saying it now.

Q: So you want them to say that this is their solution. Apart from first two solutions, third is the free movement of people from both sides?

President: No, this is not my third solution. Of course is there but this is not my point, those I think are tactical issues, there should be free movement, there should be trade and all that, these are tactical issues but solution; identify Kashmir, demilitarise, third give them self governance, now again it clashes with maximum autonomy self governance these are terms I keep on saying that please lets get out of semantics. Ok I ask you what do you mean by maximum autonomy and you ask me what you mean by self-governance. Lets put that leave the words aside and come to an agreement and call them by any name as far I am but ingredients have to be there and one of the ingredient which I want to highlight is the internal security, internal security must be of those constituents, right and not of those military of India and Pakistan because that is an issue. Now the fourth element which is the most important and critical element, on top an organisation which I’m calling joint management and again may I say this term is known to everyone, joint management on top, where there are representatives from both sides and people of Kashmir and this has access to both sides.

Q: Now the viewers know what your solution is but there is one worry, and lot of commentators in Pakistan came across to us said that this is not your solution this is just your internal position and then from there final solution will come. I want to hear from you that is this is the final solution? Or it is a negotiating position?

President: My view is that, this could be lefty for trails lets say for five years, ten years fifteen years and then when we get together again seems its efficacy see if it is functional, well, if it requires some modifications again.

Q: But it will not consider, as a negotiating step is this is your genuine solution, solution, which is required?

President: I will say that this is an idea of a solution, I’m open to any discussion, and I’m open to any idea coming from anyone.

Q: This is a new General Musharraf? Flexible and listening to the rest of the world. President: Well I have been always flexible, you misjudging me and by nature I am flexible and I keep telling everyone that I am a military man and even in corp commanders conferences, which is the highest forum I believe in democracy in their because every issue and threat there with them but there is one difference that when we discuss everyone expresses his view and we reach a conclusion and finally give my verdict.

Q; There is a buzz around that there has been a lot of progress on Kashmir from the back channels. Has there has been a progress on Kashmir?

President: We are talking but these are sensitive issues, I would not like to comment on it, because there are extremists, there are people who have there own vested interest, its agendas political agendas on both sides so lets keep it as it is.

Q: They said talks going on and we think that there is progress going on but we can’t make it public.

President: Yes, I wouldn’t like to talk on that.

Q: One thing in your solution, I just want to be very clear so that people of India know this clearly, you are being in a way extremely bold because it means that you are giving up plebiscite and you are giving up UN Resolution is that number one?

President: Now again there is little bit of a one is giving up clearly and I say yes I’m giving up. There is a provision in that I’m not giving up at all but one is prepared to give up in case India leaves its stated position also.

Q: Right, if this formula agreed to you then you will give that up because India is also. President: Both sides listen, I believe when you are negotiating when you go for peace it means what it means compromise, otherwise you can’t go for solution of the problem and what do you mean by compromise? Compromise can never take place if you don’t step back; compromise inherently means stepping back by both sides. So inherently both sides have to give up there positions and step back and if one of us not prepared to step back we will not reach a solution.

Q: If India does accept this so you will step back and give up those demands? President: Yes, we will have to.

Q: Second point sir you talked about self-governance, are you then giving up said that no independence for Kashmir?

President: Yes I am against independence absolutely so as India.

Q: Yeah I tend to got this too.

Q: Finally in this solution Pakistan is giving up its claim to Kashmir, you are letting up the self governance and you have no claim on Kashmir in this picture?

President: I have said that at the moment both India and Pakistan, we are on the same position as we were since 1948 but I am saying we both ought to be prepared to give up all that we have been saying and this includes all this if we reach the agreement where we are giving self governance yes indeed we will, that is it.

Q: So you are prepared to give up the claim to Kashmir? President: Yes we will have to if this solution comes up.

Q: Sir I am getting signals that I have taking too much time of yours but you are been as usual to the point and accepted any question without hesitation. Thank you very much sir.

President: Thank You

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